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Bob
Wonder June 11, 2002 This is Cara Doyle and I am with Bob Wonder at his home in Shawnee, and it is Tuesday, June 11th. Tuesday, June 11th. 2002. Bob’s family has a fabulous history around the South Park area. Maybe you could start with…gosh, who do I hear first? What family member arrived in this area…who first settled here? In the Bailey area, or in Colorado? In Colorado. Well, let’s see here (if you wanta stop that for a minute…I think I can…) (Pause and restart) Okay! Let’s see, we were talking about who got here first and we think maybe Henry Wonder got here first family member to arrive? And I would say in the mid 1860s instead of signin it down to a year. Okay, sure. He came from where? He came from (unclear) PA. And he was the one who homesteaded here then? He homesteaded over on Deer Crik in Park County. And what did they call it here…they said, let’s see, (looking at a record?) I think they called it Deer Valley or something…Deer Valley they called it. Deer Valley.. …in County of Park. What did they call it? Did they name the farm itself? Just “Wonder Ranch.” So, if he called it the Wonder Ranch, did he come from a family that had a agricultural background? Did he know what he was doing? (chuckles) I have no idea.. (chuckles). I don’t think a one of those people did or they’d been exposed to it because back in PA and those places there were farms and blacksmith shops and all this stuff, but blacksmithing was more of a…oh…where you went into a apprenticeship at that time. And, Roy Romer, our ex governor, owns the Wonder Ranch over there now…and about five or six years ago I was President of the “Hysterical” Society in Bailey and we arranged a field trip over to Wonder Ranch. And the farm buildings and barns were still there and, I’d give my eye teeth almost for a set of his hinges that he made for these barn doors. He must’ve been pretty successful. He succeeded at maintaining not only the ranch but also the blacksmithing? Well, when he came up to here to ranch, he had a blacksmith shop, but I think maybe it more for his own use, to make his own hinges and such as that, and I remember that blacksmith shop he had over there. Did you ever see him make hinges, or…did you watch as a child? Oh, yeah. Y’know, you’ve heard in the movies if nothin else the hammer on the anvil…I remember those sounds and such as that. But, y’see, I was born in ’18 and he died in ’24, so I was pretty young. Pretty young… And they didn’t run back and forth like they do now between here and Denver and anyplace else. But, however, we lived not on the ranch, ever. We homesteaded another little spot north of there and lived there fer I don’t there fer…I don’t know…let’s see…1920…about three years, I guess. Now wait. Who was doing this homestead? My mother and father homesteaded as well. At that time, you know, there were lotsa homesteads available. Now you said 1820. 1920? 1920. I was figgerin my grandfather in and then figgerin up into the thing y’see. Sure. So now we better say your grandfather was Henry and then he married… He married Maggie, or Margaret…I don’t know what her…well maybe it gives it here… Last name? Now she came down from Canada. Maggie Campbell. Campbell…yes. Sure. Yeah I remember that, mmn hmm…she was a sweet little ole lady. (unclear)…old all her life, that’s fer sure. Was she from a farm background…was this a new world for her? I have no idea…I don’t know but I would suppose that they were because now she married my grandfather. The other one, and her name was…Christy and she married a fellow in Jefferson by the name of Head and he was in politics and everything here in Park County…and the third one married in Nebraska and her name was Mary. We talked about that before we turned the tape on…but Maggie came down with her two sisters from Canada, so they all came down here together. Mmn hmm. At the same time. Mmn hmm. And, they all came west at the same time, apparently. Do you recall them ever talking about that? Did they ever talk about the years previous, did she ever talk about Canada or coming out… You know, honey, I was so young… Yeah, sure. And, I don’t recall.. Okay…I wish I …(unclear, both talking at once) Now, MY mother’d sit and tell stories as long as you’d sit and listen to ‘em. That’s my mother, see…and she could spin yarns about Park County until you wouldn’t believe it. I have some things that I’ll show ya before you leave. Okay. I’ll take a look at those. Now, Margaret and Henry were on the farm…do you know or do you remember what kind of crops or what kind of animals they had? Yes, they had hay and they raised cattle and some sheep…mmn hmm. Do you remember how much acreage..was it a big place? Well, he started out…the homestead then, I believe, was 360 acres. And then he purchased an additional 360 from a fella by the name of Jones, so that gave him…I don’t know… That sounds like over 700 acres. That quite big…did they help or did the kids have to help? Not much. Well, they had too boys and Maggie and Henry had one daughter…well, my Dad, two sons. Malcolm and John and Sidney. Sidney was the girl and she was the youngest. Yeah, he had help with the two boys. Now wait a minute. Today a girl hasta ask, what d’ya mean “just the two boys…” Well, John and Malcolm. Right…and did the girls…were they meant to help in the house…did they help with the farm work… I think they helped with everything…yeah, whatever needed to be done. They did in those days, you know. There was also a thing where these farmers or ranchers would go together and help one another, like with the harvest. Also…so this’n’s got a team and a wagon with a hay rack on it and this’n’s got a mower and… Sure. Potatoes used to be quite a crop up here. They would plant potatoes.. (unclear)… full day’s work… Oh, sure is. Phew…I don’t like it. I don’t either. (laughter) But the men did the field work…was it pretty exclusive that the men did the field work? Primarily. And, again, the mother had the house, the chickens and the sewing. My mother and I was thinkin of that yesterday. When we were in Texas growin…they’re raisin a lot of goats down there in Texas. Its fer the meat, the milk, the hair, you know? I can remember my mother carding wool, you know? Carding…she had a spinning wheel – she did all that. Your folks…let’s clarify that…were Malcolm Wonder and Alice McLaughlin. Now, they homesteaded nearby Henry and Maggie? We didn’t farm or anything. It purely a residential thing. We built a house there and lived there for about three years and then, Mom was teachin down at what is now Honche (unclear) and Dad was worked in the timber and in the sawmills a lot because, y’see, in those days Denver was just developing. The need for lumber and that sort of thing was great. That was one reason they built this narrow gauge railroad up through here, was to take out the building material, the hay, the mining ore and such as that, y’see. I have some pictures from right down here in Bailey where they had these railroad ties and stuff like that piled up by the track there where they were loadin ‘em out, y’ know. So, my dad was workin in that and my mother taught school. Then! (I don’t know whether I should tell you this or not because…but I will. We were…everybody’s gone but me, I might as well tell ya.) One day…I had an older brother that had some problems, physically and…he was home sick and they had somebody with him. And, somebody rode up on a horse with a white sheet on him and can of gas and a mask… Gasp.. …burned us out up there. Oh my goodness! It was about in 1924…. Did you ever know why? I didn’t and never could find out, and anyway, really, as I got older what difference did it make? It wouldn’t solve anything, you know. Yeah…there weren’t any family suspicions as to whether… No…the family was not that close. So, then, also, to go on with that…they came to Bailey with the white sheets and business, and burned a cross at Bailey down at the store. Oh, my goodness! So, the McGraws (the McGraws were owners then) and there’s been a prison in Canyon City forever…and so McGraw went down and got the warden (Roy Best was the warden forever), and he brought up bloodhounds and some of his people up here and that stopped it. When they started getting, y’know, started tracin down, why, that stopped the action of that group in this part of the country. Was this ethnically related…or was this a jealousy about money… Oh no—in those days…. (unclear) ‘Cause these days that’s what we think of… Personalities more’n anything else, I think, you know. How frightening, though. Well, yeah. I have lost (I’ve thought about this)…we have or the Wonder family did…we lost that house…we moved to and ended up over in Pitkin… Now, we didn’t say…was your brother okay in that or was he lost in that fire? No, he was saved…yeah, the (unclear) brought him out. We saved a photograph, (not a big one but a little one) and, we had a .32 single shot rifle (one shell… she shot one shell but she didn’t get anybody, but she shot it)… Good for her, though, I mean…she must’ve been absolutely scared to death. I don’t know…maybe she was in on it…I don’t know. Then, we moved and ended up over in Pitkin. So you left this area completely after that all happened. Was it because of that that you left? Well, my mother needed more credentials to continue teaching, so we went to Gunnison. We were there for two winters and then we went up to Pitkin which is just twenty-eight miles out of Gunnison….up in the timber in a small community, and there was a narrow gauge runnin through there. And, we were there until 1929, at which time we decided to move to Littleton, and I can’t tell you why, but we did. We had quite a little stuff that we stored over there with some people…and THAT place burned down and we had nuthin to do with that! Then—right here—we came up here in the early ‘30s when the folks built this place. Down where the schools are they used to put up ice in these lakes down here…have you ever seen that film where the…. I haven’t seen it but I’ve heard about it. Now, we’re pointing…we’re in your house in Shawnee and we’re looking out down toward Platte Canyon School. Right down across from the school they worked… We were talking about fires….it’s kind of a scary day to talk about it… Yeah.. We’re lookin at a pretty smoky day. It’s July…and, they There’s a pretty scary fire goin on now. They used to have…just kinda lean tos…well, no…they had buildings down there. They’d bring people up from Denver to put up ice in the wintertime because they didn’t have enough people up here to do it. So, now, they were cutting blocks of ice out of the water here? Off the lakes here. Did that go to Denver? By rail. And, then, they would pack it in sawdust…and then in summer (this was before refrigerators) the iceman would come along with horse and his (unclear). They had cards, you know, and it was 25, 40, 50 pounds, whatever you wanted…and you’d hang that card in the window with the figure of weight that you thought you wanted in the icebox, you see. How often did they come by? Oh, I s’pose every two-three days. And so, then, when the folks moved up here, they stored some stuff down where the school’s at, and I’ll be danged if those didn’t burn down! Oh Man! I’m gonna stay away from you! (chuckles) Now, now… That’s scary! Well, we’re safe and sound now. It’s sunny…the smoke’s in the distance today. Fortunately, I was in Texas when this came up. Did you see that picture in the Denver paper of this mountain? I didn’t see that one, no. It was like a city over there, you know… the fire was all over the hill there. We’re talking about a fire that was, what, about a month ago? Six weeks ago I guess. It’s an extremely dry summer when we’re talking… Three times I’ve had stuff burned by fire. Let’s say that your family has more than paid back. I think so. Where do we go from here? You were in Littleton…and you ended back up here eventually? We came back up here in the early ‘30s…about 1933. Do you remember why that was? Depression…and they had some CCC camps up here, I’ve told people many times. You know, Santa Maria statue and all that and then up Geneva is a what you’d call a castle….Porter (we all used to call her Lady Porter, I don’t know if she’d remember) she had a lot of money and she built a real nice place up there made of stone and I … Boy, that helped this whole community out because there was nuthin doin up here. They hired people to put that statue up there at Santa Maria, they hired people up at Porter’s place. The Forest Service also about the same time put a ranger station in here and one down at Buffalo so it gave some….it helped keep us alive…really! Yeah! I’ve had people say that it was actually easier up here than it was in the city. Did you find that to be true or not? Well, I don’t know. When I came up here again I was what…fourteen I guess or something like that. What are the things you remember from the Depression? My mom was talking about black curtains over the stairway…kind of a memory she has as a small child. The thing I… The Depression had a… put quite a mark on me as a young person. I didn’t like it…we were hard up. But, everybody else was, but I didn’t take that into consideration, you know. Would you say that was kinda resentful or was it just… It was just a condition…just a condition, you know. And, a few people, like the people that were…oh, maybe had bulk gas deliveries or stuff like that…they were doin pretty good. But we didn’t have anything like that. What were your folks doing at that time? Was your mom still teaching? My mother was teaching any and every place she could get and my dad was workin in the timber. He was workin up here…he could build anything with stone. Well, here’s an interesting story. We lived at Pitkin, and that was in the ‘20s. There was no electricity for anybody unless they would buy a light plant. You know, they had one down here at the store at Bailey, but the rest of us had kerosene lamps or, this was when Coleman came out with gasoline lamps and lanterns. So, there was, and is I s’pose still, a correspondence school in Chicago…it was a Crook Correspondence School, and he took a course in electricity. He got his diploma, so when we came up here we hadn’t been here…well…a couple years I guess, and they got electricity through here. So, my dad then took a refresher course in that and he wired for electricity an awful lot of the homes and businesses between Will-o-the-Wisp and Fairplay. He did nuthin then but do that for a long time, but he did it himself. Did that help the family situation? Oh, yeah. Well, in the meantime, you know, we were growin up and we were goin on to school or something else. They didn’t have the mouths to feed that they did before, y’see. How many kids were there? Well there were four. Four of you. Three boys and a girl. And you were the youngest. I was the youngest. (haha). So you were the last to leave home.. Yes. And my sister…when we moved up here, she was the number two child and she had finished high school in Littleton. At that time Montgomery Ward had put up a big building in South Denver there and everybody worked at Wards, Samsonite or Gates. She had gone to work for Montgomery Ward. So, my brother next to me… She was in Denver and just rented a room in a home, you know. So my brother went down and he got a job at Wards…so then….ultimately, when I finished school, the Forest Service had (this was one of Roosevelt’s Deal) a three months opening for a male and a female for the Forest Ranger Station down here. The guy was to be out in the field and the girl was to work in the office. So I got the job in the field and one of these gals got the one in the office. Well, that took me through till October. Then I went to Denver and got a job at Montgomery Wards as well. So, the three of us were down there together and lived together down there for thee-four years. You must’ve got along pretty well together. We did. We just got along fine. We didn’t make much money, but we split everything in thirds. We had an envelope for the grocery money and an envelope for the rent, and when we got paid we put in our deal. We just got along great. And then, I got crazy and got married (chuckles). Who did you marry? Well, I married a gal in Denver and that wasn’t…well, it was all right. We were married for thirteen years. But then, I went into the service. How old were you then? Twenty-one. In ’42 I went into the service and I was in the service for three years. Were you drafted or did you volunteer? No, I beat the draft by one day. I was supposed to report to Ft. Logan for the Army one day and I got in the Navy the day before. Did you have a feeling that was coming…did you want to choose what you wanted to do? Yes. I worked hard to get in the Navy but my eyes were keepin me out, my eyesight. Finally I comfort (unclear) it and I got in. Why the Navy? I didn’t wanta lay on the ground and crawl in the mud and shoot at people (chuckle). I can understand that. I came out of that in great shape. I was in the Medics, really, and they were sendin people in Medics overseas like crazy because the Marines, you see, didn’t have any medical department so the Navy took care of them. I got put in the Medics, and I had taken some typing and some stuff, so I got the records office most of the time. Ended up at the Flight Selection Board in San Francisco and on over into Europe for D-Day at a base hospital. What was that like? Well, it was kinda scary but it was…I didn’t have to go across the channel. I came back from there and was back for a thirty day leave…then went back to Norfolk, Virginia and got in a small craft… LST (Landing Ship Tank)…a Navy deal. Went down the Mississippi on this thing. We picked it up in Seneca, Illinois and went down the Mississippi on it and ultimately through the Canal and landed at Leyte Gulf in the Philippines when the Japanese gave up. I had plenty of points and I came on home. Humnn. But I bet that changes the marriage quite a bit with all those (unclear word). Oh, for so many. But, we stayed together and ultimately bought a home and she got breast cancer and had a radical. Then I was traveling for a wholesale appliance company. When I got back I went to work for the government until I could retire, you know. Gosh, the politics…the routine thing…and I… Where were you living? In Denver. I said, “I can’t put up with it.” and quit. Went to work with this wholesale appliance company in the office and when they needed a salesman I asked for that job. I was traveling the south half of the state to dealers…and I liked that. But, that wasn’t good because she had more complications after that and ultimately it ended up in her liver and it took her. So then, I worked a little for the finance company that financed the dealers and the paper on the retail stuff and that. I learned a lot there, I’ll tell ya. Eighteen months of that and I… You didn’t care for it. Their procedures didn’t meet my expectations at all. So, anyway. I saw an ad in the paper for a truck line that wanted a salesman. I went to work for PIA Truck Line and I was there for twenty years…twenty-four years. That was taken over by a holding company and they didn’t want us old heads. I was district manager—I was everything from Hot Springs, Wyoming to North Platte, Nebraska…if you’d draw a line north and south, you know. And, they didn’t want oldtimers around, so they just made it so rough I quit. I retired…I couldn’t take it any longer. Then, I started my own little … it was an agency where I was booking truckloads and this sort of thing. Then, I fell off a roof and got buggered (word unclear) up and I just gave up. I see a picture of your daughter on the wall. Where did she come into this picture? She was with my second wife, and she and I have been just like that. What’s her name? Jill. Jill. And then you have a grandson, also. And his name is Ryan Stadler. My daughter has had a real tough time with her marriages. She has taken back her Wonder name and is doin all right. He, Ryan, he worked for Debello’s (name unclear) Sporting Goods outfit out of Sidney, Nebraska, all during college. He went to University of Wyoming. When school was out he’d go over there and he’d go on…they’d put on tournaments, fishing tournaments and archery tournaments… That sounds like a great job. Oh, and he just loved it. He did that every summer for four years and in the wintertime, one of his fraternity brother’s family have the old steak house in Steamboat. They were puttin on a big party and they wanted some help over there, so Ryan went over to help ‘em. They liked him so much then that he worked there in the wintertime whenever they needed help, you know. What does your daughter do? She was in the computer business for twenty, over twenty years. You know, I always wanted her to be dressed up and all that stuff, but she didn’t want that, but she ended up that way. She worked for Exobite (name unclear) Computer. They were layin off people, layin off people…she has a good job there. She was in the business between them and IBM and somebody else over twenty years. About a year ago now… That’s when it all those places…they all downsized. Layin off like crazy, crazy. Finally, she left. So now.. Sure. That’s pretty common… Now she is in Longmont. She loves animals. She got acquainted with a gal that had a pet grooming business and she wanted to sell it. My daughter got started in that and she’s buyin that business. Good for her. Probably a lot less stress. She loves it and doin real good. Tape 2 (First sentence cut off) You say your brother wasn’t very well healthwise. Do you know what was wrong? My what? Your brother? Yeah, but I don’t want to say. Okay. You said you were all pretty close.. Yeah, my brother and sister and I were. We lived together there in Denver in an apartment for… And, of course, at that time an apartment just…these people’d buy a big house, put in a stove and a bathroom down the hall…you know. But it was adequate and we got around real good. We really did. We never had any big problems, and we hadn’t had before that, the three of us. It was good. And then, my brother next to me went in the Navy early on in the war and was an aircraft mechanic…it was on an aircraft carriers. Then, when he got home he went to work with Continental Airlines as a mechanic. And then he died in 1979…no…1971 I guess it was. My sister just died just a year ago. She got a stroke and was sick for a long time. And so, here I am (chuckle). Your folks’ house…can you tell me about building this house…do you remember that? I remember when they built it, yeah. And, they dynamited, my dad and uncle. They didn’t get in a piece of machinery to dig out this mountain. They dynamited it out and pushed it out with wheelbarrows and at that time they were in their late 50s or early 60s I guess. And then they cut down the trees and Barry Fitzsimons, the fellow who owned the property up where Burland is now, owned that, had a sawmill up there. They took those (trees) up there and they cut ‘em up into lumber they needed. Everything in this house is, virtually everything, is a full cut. If it’s a 2x4, it’s 2 inches by 4 inches; it isn’t a 3-1/8 inch or 3-1/2 inch. I didn’t understand that when I first started doing woodworking. Yeah.. I thought, that’s not too bad. That getcha into some real fun, especially when we built…finished the basement into an apartment ‘cause I took out a wall down there, you know, and then…so you take out full cut stuff and then you put it back in with this other and you have to fill and chink and all that stuff (chuckle). And this is all nailed. In fact, I had a gas explosion down there one time and blew out some windows; had some French doors in the south and it blew them out. Didn’t crack a wall. Wow. My mother said…”Boy.” Well I knew it was put together because that’s just the way they did things, they built ‘em to stay. They were craftsmen. My dad could be a fireplace that was just beautiful, and was strong. Did he teach you? Did you learn this growing up? Nooo. He didn’t have…he didn’t think we were interested, and we really weren’t. Now, when my uncle ended up over at the ranch by himself, my aunt, which was his sister…she married and her husband died and he was up in Wyoming workin the oil fields. My grandmother was over there alone for a while and she rented it. They lost an awful lot of farm machinery and everything else, you know, through that kind of a thing. So, my aunt came back and she was up there. She and my uncle got together and decided they’d go in on partners on it. So, they did. He did all the outside work and she did all the inside work, you know, and that worked real good. Well then, she died, well, my grandmother died and he was up there alone so he hired this, (where is it looking at something). Well, this fella here and his wife and they had two kids. Do you remember his name? Yeah, it was Bob Day, and they lived over on just the side of the hill at the (what’d they call that?) Moser (name unclear) owns that now and they were the caretakers up there when I was up there. I don’t know what happened, but that didn’t work. So, he ended up there with a hundred head of cattle by himself. Oh, Man. And hay to put up and the cattle to take care of, the house and cookin to do. One time we got together…the family…and my brother and his wife and my wife and myself and my sister and her husband. He said, “I gotta do somethin, I can’t keep that up.” He said that if any one of you couples wanta come up here with me, I’ll sign over half the ranch to you immediately. To help me. Mmm hmm. Wow. Well. None of us wanted to come up here, so he sold it. My folks lived in Bailey, and so he came and lived with them and then this house was the product of that whole thing. So he and my dad built this place and they lived up here. Mom and Dad lived up here and he lived downstairs. There’s a full attic up there too (unclear). Do you know why they chose this spot? It’s beautiful, I mean…it’s an incredible view. Well, the house down below here….No. I don’t really know other than the house below here, they were very good friends of the fella that developed this…Roy and Ava Thompson were their names. I would imagine that they got with Roy and Ava. My uncle bought this house…er, this lot and my parents bought the lot adjoining him. So then, they needed a spot for a, well they used to put in septic tanks…now they put in (unclear)…well, they didn’t have anyplace big enough for here so my uncle bought the lot that goes down to the road and they put a (unclear word…fifth boy?) they put that there. As time wore on, then, I ended up getting the deed cleared on this place…the folks signed it over to me or my dad said (he was the last living) and he said, “Hell, you can have that (unclear word).” But there’d been so many changes, deaths in the family, we had to go back and go from this one-to this one-to this one-to this one-to me, you know (or, me and my Ex)…finally got that straightened out. So this house is on one lot and the garage (which I had built). Well, now…one just has to beg the question…there’s a really huge honking tank out there also. (Laughs). Historical tank…that I have to know…you have to tell us why that’s in your back yard, too. All right. Well, when the narrow gauge railroad came up through here, a lot of people came up to fish or to get out of the heat. We have quite a few houses built on down here that were built in the late 1800s and early 1900s…and these people would come up here and spend a summer. So, the railroad put in a large hotel here at Shawnee and they needed water for it, of course. Well, they got water for it, up above here someplace and they put in and they put in this tank. It’s about 12x14 feet in diameter and about 9—10 feet high. It’s all built of redwood, full cut 3 inch by 7 inch planks. Then, it is held together with steel bands that are about 4 or 5 inches wide and I guess about three quarters of an inch thick and they’re bolted together. Each band comes in two sections and those sections are bolted together. See? And, the only way that can be moved is to disassemble it. (You want me to go ahead with that?) (Laugh) Now, was that up here or was that something you purchased? No, no, no. That was here. It was here…that was the location that they had this water tank. Yes. That was here. And, there was an easement back here where they could get in to maintain it and such as that. That was owned by the railroad… Yes. …at one point. And then, this property down here was owned by railroad, too, but it’s since changed hands, you know. That was a large hotel. That was as large as the one at Glenn Isle or the one in Bailey. We hate to see what happened to it…it burned down too (chuckle)…bad question to ask on a fire day. Yeah…but we got a better view than we had. (switched to current fire?) ‘Course I didn’t mind the smoke because that meant the wind was blowin back up this way and I hoped it was helping ‘em out down there. The last I heard there was 72,000 acres and it was still goin Gungho down there… Do you recall fires like this as a kid…I mean, was this a common thing that comes around? Not this big. They had a fire over on Tarryall when… Well…when the narrow gauge railroad came up through here, of course, that was coal burning… You know, I would think that would start something, especially in a year like this. It did. We were puttin out fires all the time. But, they would catch ‘em in a hurry. I remember one particular time, it was just before you go out of the canyon here before you go into Bailey, that it sparked one there. We all came up and put it out, but it didn’t amount to much. In this film that I have, “Engine No. 9,” it shows one being put out between here and Santa Maria. Yeah, there were fires. But there was a big one over on Tarryall. I don’t know, I was about sixteen I guess, and they kinda conscripted all us young guys to go over and fight that thing. I’ll tell ya, that’s a lonely feelin being out there after dark and fightin a fire. It was a pretty big one…well, it was nothin…this is the biggest one we’ve ever had here. We didn’t have equipment—about all we had was shovels and pickaxes. You didn’t have the planes, the slurry bombers, going over like we do now. This one is goin so fast that they can’t even fight it, you know. It’s just terrible. You talk about the trains. I would think that would be something cool as a kid. Did you get to ride the train into the city or…did you ever sneak on the train? No… …didja ever sneak on the train…? (haha) We used to CATCH the train as it came up and it would only be goin about five miles per hour. We’d run along side and grab hold… Hop on? Yeah…on the, where they’d climb up on ‘em, you know, and ride up to maybe Glenn Isle. Unhuh. …and then walk back. Didja get into trouble…did they catch you? Nah. They didn’t care ‘cause we didn’t… In fact, I worked at Glenn Isle (you know where it is down here..) Mmm hmm. I worked there. That’s the last of the hotels that you mentioned. Mmmn hmm. Huh….you worked there. Well…see, was a summer resort, actually, and it was quite busy. That was in 1934-1935 and they needed people to cut wood for the fireplaces, they needed people to carry bags for the passengers who’d come up on the trains. We’d meet the trains and take the bags over to the rooms and all that sort of thing. That was a good job for a deal like that. Do you remember what you made? BW Yeah. Five dollars a week and room and board. I had a room under…there’s a round thing that you see as you go down there…there’s a room down there below that and there’s a pool table and then there’s a little room right out by the river there. That’s where I stayed. That was your room? Neat. It WAS neat! That’s the last of the hotels that you mentioned that are up here now. Yeah, yeah. We were also talking to the lady who has that place…Barbara Barbara, Barbara Tripp. Oh, you know, her grandparents owned that. They were from Michigan. The dearest people in the world. Do you remember…were they around when you were growing up? Did know… The Tripps? Yeah! Well, I worked for the grandparents. The lived up…Barbara…oh what was her name (I’ll think of it in a minute). Their daughter’s husband worked in the sugar beet industry up around Ault and (name unclear) and up in there. They would come down. They had the daughter and she had a brother, Jim, and they would come down and spend quite a bit of time in the summer. At the resort? Unhuh. Was that considered quite a grand place. I mean, how was that viewed in that day? Well, it was a nice place. It was nothing plush. It was a long time ago, too, you know. They had a lot of people come from Kansas and various places and spend the summer there. Do you have any idea what it cost to spend time there in the ‘30s? No, I don’t. I know that a 35 cent tip was a pretty good tip. (Laughter) And then, I know it cost—what—75 cents to get into the dance and I always scraped up enough to get to go to the dance. And, also, before that…we picked peas and potatoes and stuff like that. They grew a lot of stuff here. They grew peas and potatoes? Yeah. All through here? Were they cash crops? Well. You know where the church is in Bailey? Mmmn hmm. That building was built to be a potato cellar. All that out in front of it…Fralings (name unclear—sp?) owned that. They planted potatoes sometimes, sometimes lettuce, sometimes peas and I worked for them. Today we just don’t think of that kind of agriculture up here. When was that left…did the market drop out, or was it when the water rights changed, or people moved away…what changed that? It was still goin good when I left here in the mid ‘30s. I don’t know. Can’t answer that, really. I know…we also worked over on the other side of the hill and that’s all grown up back into grass over there. But, I know the people have all died, too, and they got to the point when they couldn’t keep up with it, you know? I know the water rights filled up but I don’t know if that happened before or after. No. Well, we didn’t sell off water down here…that’s all up in the Park. To my knowledge. Oh. Okay. Right here…we have our own water system here. We have two wells. Really! In Shawnee? Mmmn. We have a well down here at the river. So, is water, then, as big an issue here? Well, yeah. It is a big issue and, of course, now with it as dry as it is, people are havin to go ahead and drill deeper because the wells are goin dry. I talked to, who…oh, my barber over on top of Crow Hill. He’s on a rock pile over there and we were talking about this water thing. He said, “Guess how deep my well is.” I said, “Arthur, I have no idea how deep it would be.” “A thousand feet.” A THOUSAND FEET! Oh my goodness. People I know of in Jefferson who live right behind the old depot up there, that blue house…their well was about 5 feet. 5! (haha) 5 or 6. And I’ll betcha now they’re goin to hafta go deeper to get water up there as dry as that Park is…that just a desert up there. So, you don’t recall growing up having this kind of a drought. No, I’ve never seen anything like it. Nothin, nothing, nothing like it. And, in the winter we’d get snow. We’d get 12-8-10-14 inches of snows at a time. Shoot, we don’t get any snow any more. Now, I think it was governor said he’s gonna start seeding the clouds on the east side of the range here. What do you think…do you trust that? Well, I think what’s happened to our water in South Park and this whole thing is those ski areas are seeding those clouds and there’s lotsa snow on the other side, but it never gets over the hill. As a child, that wouldn’t been somethin that you….. No. Did you play in the snow? Sure! Skiied, threw snowballs, and the whole bit, yeah! Did you ever go to the ski resorts as a kid? We didn’t have ski resorts at that time. Nothing? There was not a certain hill or somewhere….someone told me that there was a hill in Alma, that there was a little hill that all the kids would go skiing on. Well there was some of that stuff I s’pose. There was the one up Geneva, you know. Then, got so there was not much snow up there and it was on Forest Service. I’ve been up here ten years the 13th. of September…I was up there before they burned the darned thing down. The Forest Service just burned that down. Oh, you’re kiddin. Yeah. Lock, stock and barrel. So, y’mean it was still intact? Yeah. When did that happen? It was about 7 or 8 years ago. They tried to lease it, tried to lease it, tried to lease it. Do you know Richard Hamilton? I do. (chuckle) You’ll have to get the story on that from Richard. He’ll tell me? Okay. He’ll pound your ear on that thing. He was really workin to keep that goin but it didn’t work. He was supposed to wait until Fall before they did anything…they said they was gonna burn it down…well, they burned it down in the Spring. And then they said, well let’s rebuild it. Well…we haven’t got enough snow over here to ski on, honey. Right, right. No way. But, they have on the West side, and I think they should seed those clouds and I think they should limit what they get over there. You know, we entitled to a living over here too. Mmmn. Now, they wanta put up that Monorail to the west side, but is the ski area…are they comin forward and sayin “Hey! We’ll pay 90 percent of that or 10 percent of that!” Don’t you think they’ll pay for all that? (chuckle) No, I don’t think they pay…. Maybe a little bit, a token amount. But who’s it gonna help? It’s not gonna help the East slope other than people flyin into Denver and get on the Monorail and go across. Have you seen a big difference from growing up—I haven’t lived here very long—but the wealth versus the poverty—have you seen that or ever resented that or have you seen changes in the dynamics of the community? Well, it’s hard to judge. Again, the church, the Senior Coalition and this sort of thing…one thing that developed this (and I think it did around over in Lake George and that area)…there were lots of fellas in the service that were stationed in Denver. They’d come up here on weekends and so on, you know. And so, the war was over and they stayed in and then they retired, and they came back out here. We have had a lot of ex-service personnel retired over here and now they’re getting older and many of ‘em had to move out because of the elevation. You don’t see the poverty, yet you know it’s there because, from the standpoint of the church saying “Well, we’ve furnished 35 families Christmas dinners”… or toys, or things like that, and various groups. I had a little old lady livin down below me here and she used to get commodities (you know what I’m talking about). Sure. Well, she got to the point she couldn’t go down there and I used to take her down or go down and get it for her. You’d see people there that didn’t need the commodities but they were getting them anyway, and I don’t think that’s fair. I saw it in Denver when I worked at the Transportation of Denver and down around the…well, they had two markets…the D’Margo (sp) Market and what was that other’n…anyway, they had commodities down there. You would see people drive up in Cadillacs with mink coats…every darn week and go get the commodities. I don’t think that’s fair. If you need it, go get it. I’ve had people ask me, “Well, how are you livin?” I’ve said, “Well, Number One, I’m drawin Social Security, but I haven’t paid interest on anything for a good many years…that’ll save you an awful lot of money.” Yeah. If you just pay it off in a hurry. That garage out there. I had to borrow some money to pay for that. Well, I got a ten year loan and I paid it off in three years. The bank…I never walked in there with a lump sum that someone didn’t say, “Hey, you’re costin’ us money.” I said, “You’re just breakin my heart!” You know, I’m lookin out for me, you’re lookin out for yourself. Mmmn hmm. But…there’s some around, of course…there is anyway. Some families just can’t make ends meet, I don’t five a tooth what happens, you know that. They don’t know how to plan, they don’t know how to spend or, they spend it foolishly or for different reasons and…sicknesses. Sure. There’s a lot of reasons, but I think the American people as a whole have had it pretty darned good for a long time, a long time. Well, I’m not going knock America and what we have and what we can do with our freedom and all that. It’s been a tough year. Is there anything that you would tell people now? Yeah. They’re out of work, but there is Unemployment Compensation and they’ve extended that, what, thirteen weeks or something… I’m thinking of all the terrorism threats and everything..what do you think of that coming into this kind of a different age or… I don’t know. That worries me. That whole thing has worried me to think that we can do away with this whole thing of hatred and all that….why, I don’t know….that’s a pretty big order. It’s a pretty good order and I hate to see innocent people exposed tryin to straighten this thing out, y’know. So you belong to national government, you belong to this, you belong to that….so, you’re told to go over there and do this. Well… September 11th. and all that. Yeah. It broke my heart and still does. It seems like it was a clearer enemy, maybe years ago…I don’t know if that’s true or not, though. In World War II or World War I. I don’t know. Of course, you know, we’re not going around makin nothing but friends now, either. Do you ever watch Sixty Minutes? Ummn hmm. Did you watch it this week? Nope, don’t think I did. Boy, it pretty much zeroed in on this thing we’re talking about. They interviewed these head of states and such and such from various countries and this one came right out and said, “You know, basically, our population hates Americans.” Umhmm. (Because of their attitudes and what they’ve done and one thing or another.) What I say is “how is this thing goin to end…it can’t go on forever.” You’re not goin to get everybody on your side, I don’t give a darn what they say. So! I’m concerned, but I don’t know the answer. If I did, it probably wouldn’t solve anything. (chuckle). What about you? How do you feel about it? I feel the same…I find it quite frightening, you know. Talking on this project to folks who were in a world war, it just seems so different. But, then, I think that at that age how frightening it must have been…you guys were so young and so innocent about being in a foreign country…maybe we’re just spoiled now. Oh, I don’t know. Of course, we lost lives…my gosh. Right there at that invasion of France, you know, I forget how many thousands were killed there. I happened to be on the other side of the channel, and we were there to save their lives if they got back, you know…got ‘em back there. But,…I don’t know. All right. We’re not goin to solve the problems today. I want to thank you. Is there anything you want to add? Well, I appreciate you comin down, it’s nice meeting you and workin with you. Oh, I appreciate you…wish we could put all this stuff on tape…we have wonderful papers and pictures and logs…we’ll try to put some of that in the Archives maybe, if we get pictures.. We’ll try to get together again…or, if you have some questions about what we’ve discussed, why I’ll be happy to… Okay! (Miscellaneous comments on telephone service…) End |