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Shorty Robeson
February 19, 2002 Okay. It’s Tuesday, February 19, this is Cara Doyle and I am talking to Shorty Robeson in his little log cabin on Main Street in Alma with the help of our two doggies and I want to thank you Shorty for giving this a try with me. I’m going to start out asking you when you were born. June 20, 1914. June 20th, 1914. Mm-hmm. And what town were you born in? Kearney, Missouri. Kearney, where’s Kearney? I thought everybody knew where Kearney was. It’s the home of the James boys. James Boys being… Did you ever hear of Jesse James? I have! Where did they live? About a miles and a half … in James farm, ‘cause I didn’t know them ‘cause Jesse got killed I think in ’78; 1878. Oh! So they were way before you. But I knew his daughter, Mrs.…. Jesse James’ daughter? Yeah and his son. What were they like? Well, Mary, she married Henry Barl (phonetic) there at Kearney and he’d worked for my granddad and my dad at harvest time and also the two grandsons, they were about … in high school age. Were they nice? Yeah, they seemed to be. Huh. Well, what did they think of all the (inaudible). You know, back there, it was angry blood and (inaudible). It was you know, anyway… I never forget the time that I was about five years old when Henry Barl and his two boys were chopping weeds out of the corn and (inaudible) the house. And Henry would have been their son? That was his son-in-law. Oh, son-in-law, okay. Yeah. And what happened when they were out chopping? He always feed the harvest hands, so my mother told me to go down to tell him that dinner was ready. So I’m about five or six, maybe in there, I go down and then tell them when they get to the end of the road that, “You make one more round and dinner will be ready.” (laughter) and then you know what? I caught (inaudible) and I went home. And you got in trouble. Yes, she was waiting dinner. (laughter) And they didn’t show up. No, it took about oh, fifteen, twenty minutes to make the round. So were you a farm kid? You were out on the farm, right? Yeah. What kind of farm was it? Well, like all farms - raised everything, mostly feed for the stock that you put up, corn and alfalfa and wheat. Now, wasn’t there some kind of story about a horse and the James brothers? (inaudible) Was it Frank? I remember you telling me a story, was it Frank who came up and stole a horse… No, it was Jesse. From the farm. Jesse stole the horse? Both of them. But they go the wrong horse and they give it up down the (inaudible) and then got it back. And they stole a horse from your dad? No! It was from my grandfather. Oh, your grandfather. See, my grandfather was the same age as Jesse James. Okay. So then I knew Bob, that was Frank’s boy. He was - - I don’t know whether he was ever married or not, but he lived out there on his place and … but Barls was you know… (tape pause) We had a little problem with our outlet but I’m back with Shorty and Fantasimo’s here panting beside us, who’s Shorty’s dog and favorite friend and companion. So Shorty, we were talking about life on the farm in Missouri and I’m curious now, I know a few more stories than you’ve told on the tape so far. So I want to know, you were – you were a little kid doing these farm chores; how did you end up riding the trains? Because I hated breaking mules! My dad didn’t mind but they hired him and hooked it up for a breaking (inaudible) something like that and I would have - - I couldn’t leave them or hand to hold the reins and so … So that was one of your main jobs, was helping your dad break the mules. (inaudible) break all those … yeah. Had a bunch of mules up there, horse and mules. Twenty-two at one time and the farm, that was back in the days of, you know, when you farmed your…horses. And you didn’t like that job. So what did you do? Come to the end of the road one time and one of them jumped the fence and I had three on one side and one on the other and so I got them tied down and I come back about six weeks later from riding the freight train. (laughter) So tell me the first time you jumped a freight train. First time? Yeah! Weren’t you scared? How old were you? Nine. Only nine years old. Mm-hmm. And what got you to jump that train that day? Just seeing others. That was back in the time when - when trains was loaded…with people and (inaudible). Were there kids that age doing that then? There was even families struggling. So did your - - did you do the first time… That was the … Was there a friend with you? That was in the heart of the Depression. Okay. And the next time, see, your common junction was only thirty miles from there, so me and my buddy would ride up, catch it and ride up and get back our folks wouldn’t know we’d been gone and we made it up the railroad (inaudible), we picked up after we split and run in opposite directions. So we did. Only he took after me - whipped me and I had four dollars in quarters that I’d saved up; that was big money back in them days and I thought I’d rob the (inaudible) so I spent a little time in jail. Lying to them, wouldn’t tell them where he’s going, so finally it was the Chief of Police Cameron and (inaudible) wanted to be nice me so they took out to dinner and both of them questioned me from both sides and they broke me down and I had to tell them the truth. So you told them who your dad really was. Yeah. Oohh, did you get in trouble? No, I didn’t. What happened? What happened? We didn’t have a car back in them days so he had a neighbor, he come up and get me so he says to me when the - - “unlock the door,” and I was the only one in that jail. He said, “Son, are you ready to go home?” and I said, “Yes Dad, I am,” and he never it mentioned it to me afterwards at any time, so that’s what hurt. So it would have been better if he had been mad at you, do you think? Yeah, ‘cause he’d give me a whipping over it and get it over with and he didn’t do it, he just never mentioned it again. Huh. And how did that make you feel? Well, it made me feel kind of ashamed of myself but anyway, by the time I was fourteen I’d been in eighteen different states just you know, everybody was riding them back in them days when they wanted (inaudible) some directions. So now, what about school during this time? Weren’t you in school? Well, I would go in the summer a lot of times, but I never got too far in school but high school. No, I did - - you’d get hungry and you’d go back in (inaudible) (laughter). And was school, was that like a one-room school house, or was it a big school? No, it was a town school there in Kearney. Same school that my parents went to. Huh. And how did you like school? Were you much of a student? I liked school fine and dandy. Yeah? What was your favorite subject? Believe it or not, it was ‘rithmetic and geography. I believe it! Mm-hmm. Alright. So now you were riding trains when you could in the summers. How did you end up in Colorado? Well… What made you leave home and move out here? ‘Cause you were pretty young. Well, I was nineteen when I get here. Okay. When did you leave home? Was that your first time? (inaudible) during them times. Okay. Mm-hmm. Tell me about the day you hitched the train into Colorado. How did you land here? Well, I … as far as that goes, I hitch-hiked to Como and then I caught the freight train and it was only about two boxcars on it coming down the Junction so we were hauling ore and concentrates down from the mines to Alma Junction and loading it on the train there train, so I wanted to come up to Alma and caught it again when we was coming on up to Alma Junction. It was going too slow for me on some of them that I rode, so I jumped off and hitch-hiked here. And there was plenty of work here. Why did you pick Alma? Was it ‘cause of the mining? No, I had a cousin that had worked up here and then when the gold went up from twenty sixty-five to thirty-five dollars an ounce, that’s what boomed Alma again. And now that was still during the Depression? Oh yeah, twenties and thirties… five. Okay. Mm-hmm. And that’s when you first arrived in Alma. What’s the fist thing you did? The first thing I did was inquire about work and (inaudible) went to work over in the placers. When you say the placer, what is that? What’s the name of it? Little placers, where they was – they’s was driving tunnels on bedrock and put it to a sluice box on the outside. Had you done any mining before? No! How’d you convince them to hire you if you didn’t know anything? Well, they was looking for help all along ‘cause it was on the – over on the placer that Red Phillips had to lease and ?pull? of it and he didn’t pay wages. They paid - - it was on the ?bicut? - - oh, what do you call them - - we got fifty cents a pennyweight for doing the digging and he furnished all the tram cars and wheelbarrows and picks and shovels and … Now what was his name? Red Phillips. And he owned the mine? No, he leased it. Oh, he just – okay. So… So you met him and he hired you; what was your first job? (inaudible) hiring anybody and then we wasn’t making much, first two shifts and a half in the (inaudible). One (inaudible) to another without a check for fifty cents. So where were you living? In jail. ‘Cause you wanted to be? (inaudible) there was a quite a few of us in there and a good stove and beds and mattresses… So you weren’t in trouble, they just let you stay there? Yeah! And then after a few more days why then, Red guaranteed me for a boarding house and … And now was this a boarding house that he had, or did different people have them? Several different people. He just stood good for them. You know, if they didn’t make all that other or whatever. Uh-huh. But people, I don’t know, seemed to be more honest back in them days. So was that one of the ways people made money, was running these boarding houses for miners? Some did. They was several of them here in Alma at that time, had everything you needed other than you know, ?labor? papers and got the (inaudible). We had drug stores and (inaudible) stores and grocery stores and bars and you name it. So how would you say the size compared to what it is now? There was a lot more population, ‘cause they had shacks all out around every place. One and two room tar-paper shacks that the miners would build and live in. Well, that population was quite a bit bigger than it is now and as far as I know right now, I’m the only one here now who was here when I come here. They probably - - still some of them living, but none of them around up here. Mm-hmm. So I can tell you about back in them days who lived in all these houses, but they’re done gone. Who are a few of them that stand out in your memory? Well, ?Hutters? of mine and (inaudible), Walt Johnson and Scotty Brown …and some of them guys… and now Pat Welder and then there was all buddies of mine (inaudible). And you were all mining; were you all new to it? Were you all learning together? Yeah, we had to learn it. Was there someone who was kind of your mentor? Was there an old mining guy who kind of taught you the ropes? Oh yeah, there was Kip Doramic, a helper and up at the mines, they would pay him wages and some (inaudible) too. But a mucker was hand-mucking and shoveling. Now that’s a new guy, like when you first start out you’re a mucker? Four dollars and forty cents… a day. Okay. But they had a boarding house up there, too. How much did you have to pay for the boarding house? I forget now. Do you remember what rent cost? I’m just wondering how far did the $4.40 go? I mean, if you’re making $4.40 a day… (inaudible) took it as far then as it did today you know, in comparison. How did that compare say, to someone in the city who was working during the Depression? It compared with that. Were you better off do you think? Where? Up here than in the city during the Depression? I’ve heard stories that people said it was a little easier to live up here. Do you think that’s true? I don’t know, it seemed to be a different class of people up here or up in the mountains and it’s not like… Different class how? Like nicer or harder work? How were they different? Hard-working and trustworthy and like I’ve always known this: “If you can’t trust anybody, you’re not to be trusted.” So you worked in a placer mine, how long were you there? Oh, I was there a part of two years. Sometimes you’d make good money and the next time, hardly anything. And first you were a mucker and then what? What did you move up to? Well, in the placer you was running the same - a’digging – but when I had leases of my own well, I managed to make a living. Was there someone who really helped you? Was there an older miner who worked with you? How did you learn how to do this, like get your own claim and find the gold? Well, your amount of energy go along. I used to think them older ones was lazy because they couldn’t start to keep up with me, but now I found out why! (laughter) Kind of a - - well, I just of liked it up there and I’ve been around to look at (inaudible) of mining… What other places did you mine? I’m not (inaudible) but the states was Idaho and Utah and New Mexico and Colorado, some of the states. I was in mining so long in one place and you want to better yourself and you ain’t getting raised up fast enough so you go and hire out as a miner and if you make it or not, it’s all up to you. Now when did the war come in to this? Now, you’ve told me… I was here in ’35 when the war come in in ‘41. I worked in Rifle, Colorado for the (inaudible) and then … But you wanted to enlist. Yeah. So what did you have to do? I enlisted. No, I quit the…Rifle and I went to Butte, worked there awhile and then on back in the Coeur D’Alene where I’d worked before in Idaho. Them buddies of mine was going in and well, I thought they might need my help. But now that was kind of a big deal. They didn’t necessarily want the miners to go into the war, right? No, you was – you was ?close? on the job back in them days, but they was releasing guys from back east to go to work in the non-ferrous metal mines. So how did you talk them into letting you quit? It wasn’t easy! I enlisted, but I had to have three letters of recommendation. I went in as a you know, electrician; (inaudible) and firing shots underground and ‘lectric and battery, but I (inaudible) guys over there that less than here. But now wasn’t there a story that you almost had to make someone mad or something to let him let you go out of the mine? Well, that was over getting fired in the mine for having a fight underground. And if you fight underground, what happens? Generally, you’re black-balled from all mines in that area. But I wasn’t but… So what did the guy tell you? Didn’t your boss - - you told me something about your boss? What boss? The one where you were fighting. That you were trying to convince him to let you go into the war and he wouldn’t let you. No… they - - one of them was in the office and they drafted pay. My boss at the ?Daylock? up there was - - he’d been in the Navy back in them days, World War I. That way, he’d been in the - - no, he was all for it. Okay. Anyway, I got in. And where did they send you? From Spokane, Washington I was sent to Wittenburg, Virginia. And then? And then after six weeks training, I was sent back to the west coast and … oh, where was it… I forgot the place right now. And how did you end up in a boat to Australia, when was that? Well, that was in – after a month or so out there in California. Oxnard and then it was - - we were in Camp Burso. Seebie camp (inaudible) for the navy and then the record-maker. That’s the only we ever traveled aboard ship was as the troops - - and there was that much different like them Marines. We were - -the seebies were kind of a Marines. Weren’t you kind of scared? A little farm kid from Missouri being sent off on a ship to Australia? Were you afraid? No, I wasn’t afraid. I just wondered what it would be like. What did you do on the ship to keep busy? Oh, watch the flying fish and the sharks. And weren’t there some games that you played? Shooting craps and “21”. Now I understand, didn’t you make some money along the way? Yeah, tagging them washing. Washing. Yeah. So you’d wash the guys’ clothes for how much? I forget now, but it was good money back in them days and then in the blackjack game, only one, in craps I’d get up there in the money and then I’d go back down and have to go wash everything. But I did reach Australia with a hundred dollars in my pocket. And what did you leave the States with? Three cents and I throwed overboard. (laughter) But you had a hundred bucks when you got to Australia. Yeah. And then how did you make money? That was after things had passed us in ?____? New Guinea. Okay, you’re stationed in New Guinea… Oh yeah and registered (inaudible) New Guinea. But what were you doing down there? The guys teased you because you were always looking for ... Gold. Huh-huh. Mining in your blood. Mm-hmm. We’d be filling in a part of a bay for them, sorting docks and stuff like that their peers for ships and I’d unload it and no, it was - - I heard there was gold down there but I finally found it in (inaudible) the area of Alandia, Dutch New Guinea. What was it called? The town - Alandia? Mm-hmm. In Dutch New Guinea. Tell me about the day you found the gold. Well, we was on a patrol and we came - -course, down there, the drinking water was hard to get a hold of from (inaudible) we had to haul it from (inaudible) And the gold (inaudible) out of an aluminum canteen (inaudible) or what was it – iodine and chlorine, so I come across a little stream up in the hill and I kneel down and take a drink and my buddies all thought I was going to die. I made fine and dandy. Now they had a nickname for you, didn’t they, about looking for the gold? What did they call you? Well, I was a gold miner, that was all. There wasn’t anybody know anything about mining, so some big stories got started up. Now there was - - no, it was a number or something. It was like the term for being crazy. Oh, that was B flats and crazy sixes for the Seebie. So didn’t they call you that? That they’d yell it out or something? No. Deep five, deep five (laughter) but they changed their minds when I come in with the gold. So you went through this little stream; how did you actually find the gold in it? Well, it was in the black sand! Where it was coming over a little (inaudible) deal and you get clear water boiling up the black sand and you could see the gold in it. So…that’s where I found it. You found it. And now you made something beautiful out of the gold. What did you make? Well, you’ve seen some of it… I did! You made beautiful gold hearts. Mm-hmm. How did you melt the gold down? At the motor pool. We had a motor pool and you know, with welding torches, cutting torches, and take, put it in a - - I learned to put it in a barrel plug and cast iron and you need a (inaudible) to keep it from sticking and heat it a couple of times to get your slag out of it and then put it on a piece of metal with a cutting torch on it for heat and just kind of gut it to (inaudible) beat it down flat and make heart shapes. Why did you make hearts? Because it was - - everybody wanted one and they could have their wife or their girlfriend’s initials put on it. So then the guys would buy these from you? Yeah. And send them home to their sweethearts. Mm-hmm. What did you charge for them, do you remember? Yeah, I could make about three out of an ounce and I only charged, when gold was $35 an ounce, I “sacrificed” them for $220 a piece. What a guy. ‘Cause you wanted their sweethearts to get something nice, didn’t you? Yeah! (laughter) There isn’t any place to spend money down there. Yeah. Gamble it away. Well, that would get monotonous. So how much did you come home with, or did you spend it gambling? No, I didn’t! I been ?drawed? on the boards and I had it come home with and (inaudible) of gold, too. Yeah. And then you get home with some…place and quite a bit home from over there besides my corruptness sent home. See, by that time I was married and had two kids. So we kind of skipped that part. We have to go back to finding your wife! You got married before you went into the service, huh? Oh, yes. What year was that? That was July 3 in ’36. So you got married just a year after you got to Alma. Yeah, that’s - - July and a year. So what was your wife’s name? Mary. Mary Evans. And what was Mary doing up in Alma? She had a brother up there that she came up to see and she started waiting tables in the restaurant and I was eating there quite a bit, (inaudible). Side B Okay, so you met Mary, you went to dances, what else would you do? What did you do for fun in those days? Well, that’s’ about all of our (inaudible). Did you go hiking or fishing, or… I’d go up to our mine where I was working. How romantic is that? I don’t know and then we’d take a vacation once in awhile and go back to see some of the folks in Missouri. Where was Mary from? She was from - - I think she was born in Kansas and she was from Jamestown, Colorado and (inaudible). Okay. So what kind of wedding did you have? Was it a big one? Well, a JP, Justice of Peace, then a friend of mine…he was the best man so he was the witness and best man. It was just a small wedding. Did your families come up or anything? No. They didn’t know nothing about it ‘til after (inaudible). You didn’t tell them? No, they wasn’t - - I didn’t have inaudible) around here. Were you in touch with your parents much at that time? Oh yeah. Now were you raised a certain religion, if you got married by the Justice of the Peace. Were you each raised in a different religion, or the same? (inaudible) Christian religion. What was your family? My family from the Christian church and Baptist church and (inaudible). And were the - - all of them? Kind of a mix? Well, everyone’s ?bound? to difference. Ok. What about Mary’s family? Her grandfather was a Methodist preacher. He was from Germany and her grandmother couldn’t help her. So you got married in a little ceremony; did you go on a honeymoon? No,… No honeymoon? Later, go to Denver to see her dad. She was a twin. They were born in different years. Really! She celebrated her birthday on the first day of the year and her brother, when he was fourteen, he got killed. A boulder cut - - was up on the hill and cut him down in Boulder Canyon. And they was fourteen years old. He was born in just before the break of New Year’s and she was born just after (inaudible). So they were twins but they had totally different years. (inaudible). No when did your kids come along? You said you had two kids with Mary? Well, let’s see. That was before you went into the service? Oh yeah. I would imagine July of ’36 and Carolyn come along in ’37, the first of August and three days later Jim come along and that was a (inaudible) in August. Now when you had a baby in those days, where did - - did you have the babies at home? No, they had a hospital down in (inaudible) didn’t they? Do you remember the name of the hospital? Yeah. The ?Stokely? Hospital. The Stokely Hospital. It’s not the one that’s a clinic now, it’s a (inaudible) apartments. Okay, the big apartment building. So your wife went into the hospital and had the babies there… Yeah. Do you remember what it cost then? Do you have any idea? Yeah, she stayed there ten days and they turned her loose and I was presented for delivery and the room it cost me $85 but it was just as hard to pay $85 back in them days as things are today. Sure. And now you didn’t have any kind of insurance in those days? There wasn’t medical insurance or anything like that? No, when you’re (inaudible) running mine, when I was working up there they’d charge you a dollar and a half a month. I (inaudible) took it up to the hospital with gold or silver or whatever and they could even the (inaudible) two days on that. So by that time you had gotten out of the Alma Placer and you were up at the South London. Mm-hmm. Yup. And then you went away to the service. Yeah. How long were you gone? Around two years. So your wife was alone with two babies. Mm-hmm. And did she have family up here who helped her. No, she was (inaudible). She was getting as much more - - more money than when I was working in the mines out there! ‘Cause I don’t - - mine, I went in with the (inaudible) and she got (inaudible) And then I sent more home but we’d have to get a buddy that didn’t’ have any money or you know, shooting craps all the time and get him to send her money order or (inaudible) but she was financially better off. And she could get everything in town. Alma had all the stores she needed. Oh yeah. Even clothes for the kids, could you get those here. And she had a car, too. What kind of car? An old Plymouth. Now were many of the women driving then? Did a lot of women have cars and were they out driving on their own then? What do you mean? I remember like my grandma’s family, none of them - the women – were taught to driver cars. So was that common up here, the women were pretty independent would you say? Sure! All of them was … And that was in the late ‘30s. But I know some women today that hate drive or don’t drive. You remember Shirley… Harris? Yep. She never did drive. I guess I’ve gotten the impression that the women in those days were pretty tough and independent for that time. Well, you had to be a pioneer woman … To live up here? To take it. Were there more men than women? I imagine there was ‘cause they was working in the mines and boarding houses and stuff like that. Now what about the entertainment for the miners? You have to tell me about that! How would I know? He’s making a face (laughter) Now come on, there were places to stop on the way down from the London… All I know is what I was told. Now you’re lying to me. Now come on, the guys would come off the mine, get their pay and they would stop and the ladies would entertain them. That - - well see, I was married from about that time. Right. So we know you wouldn’t have done that, but what about your buddies? Men that like women, they don’t tell anything. Now there were bars right, up Mosquito Gulch? Yeah. How many bars were there up that way? Two as far as I know. Two bars? Where were they? Was it deep in… One just above where you live, that house up (inaudible) Deacon Jebb, right? The one that he owned for awhile? (inaudible) on that road that goes up to the Orphan Boy. Is that the place that’s Kurt and Jill’s now? No, that was another one. That was another… Okay, so this was farther up the road. No! It’s before you get to Kurt and Jill’s. The little cabin on the right-hand side? Yeah. Okay, and what was there? I don’t know what it was. Oh no, come on! There was a bar…right? Was there a dance hall or anything like that? Was it just a little bar? (inaudible) back up there we used to dance up there at Kurt and Jill’s… There were dances? Mm-hmm. And now were those dances that everybody came to? Yes, that was open. Okay what was that place called, do you remember? No. No, so two places up that way. What about park City; were there many people living there at that time? Park City…it was full up, yeah. Were there more houses than there are now? Yeah, some of them is burned and some (inaudible). Would you have called that a town, or was it more like a mining camp? Well, as I remember, in ’35, there was a school house up there. It would be right in there just…in your area. Up there pretty close to sort of … Kathy and Bill’s. Is the building gone that the school was in? Yes. Do you remember anything about what was in my cabin? Do you remember, was someone living there? Sure there was someone living there but at the time, I - I wasn’t that well-acquainted. I knew quite a few of them up there; it was only through mining. He worked in the mining. You can work at the mine, maybe somebody’s on the opposite shift. And never actually meet them. How many people were working say at the South London at that time? The South London was working around 270. That’s with the mill and the underground and the London Butte was working around 70 and the North London was working about that many and the American, it shut down I think in ’37 and well they - - the big Orphan Boy was running (inaudible) Some work and then up Buckskin, there was Buckskin Joe was running and there was mines all over and then two or three guys would team up together and go on a lease. So were most guys working not only at one of the bigger mines but would most of them have like a claim of their own, too? No… No? But you did. But some of them, like me, always wanted to get their own instead. I’ll show you this record of working for wages. You could make a living … part of the time. Mm-hmm. So now you just handed me this beautiful rock you call it a paperweight and it’s kind of, oh, like a dark charcoal gray and white and .. That’s the rose quartz. And what’s it called? It don’t look nothing like that you just shown me Sunday. No, no, we were looking at a different rock, but this is beautiful and can see the all the pieces of gold in it! I’ll show it. It looks – it reminds me kind of marble. It’s not a marble. Yeah, I know. It’s a quartz. It’s a quartz? And what else? Well, that is quartz-based. With gold running through. Where did you find this? In the South London. Was that typical of the kind of stone that you were finding at the South London then? It all occurs in pockets. You might work up there ‘til a couple of years and never run into anything like that. Was this a pretty good find? Do you remember when you found it? It had to have been back in about ‘38… Wow and you saved it all this time! Yeah, it was another (inaudible) of rock that fit into my dinner bucket but that one’s been cut by a diamond saw. How did you - - I’m seeing the gold kind of running through the veins of this, how did you capture the gold? What was the method you used then? Do what you call a little bowl, steel, (inaudible) and another piece of steel… So you crush it up? Crush it up into a powder and then ?pan? it. Okay, and that’s how you did it on your own? Yeah. You found it on your own? Now was this from your own claim? This is from the South London when you were there. No, this - - when I was working at the South London. Didn’t you run one of those for awhile? Didn’t you run the operation up there? Which one did you run? Yeah, the Orphan Boy. And how did that compare? I mean, did you get - - was it very different? It was a lot different because it was mostly lead and zinc.. and a little gold. Because we run about a third of a ounce to a… (inaudible) and it would go up twenty feet. Zinc and then lead and silver. When did you buy the mine that you have now? Was that a lot later? Yeah, that was in ’66. Okay. And then you’re not selling gold from that. What are you selling? (inaudible) (inaudible) What would the guys have said if they’d known you were selling rocks instead of gold and making more money? Whatever there’s any money in. You had to live and gold to me has only been a payday (inaudible) get a paycheck and you do have a chance of making a little more at times. When did you - - you were married to Mary, but then you got a divorce later. When was that? ’67. So you were married a long time. Twenty-one years! Okay, but you stayed friends… She said I was married to a mine! Were you working all the time? Were you not being romantic? (laughter) I don’t know how to answer that! You worked a lot. Yes. We’ll just say that. And so then did she move from Alma? Yeah. And then when did you meet your next wife? When I was out in Utah. And what was her name? Daphne. Daphne. When did you get married? In the latter part of - - last part of ’67. Okay, and so… And that lasted 27 years. And now she got very ill, right, and passed away? Yeah. What did she have? A little bit of everything. She had diabetes… She had a very difficult how? And she had varicose veins and I don’t know, about half a dozen ailments. I think we skipped a child somewhere in there, didn’t’ we? We talked about your daughter and your son, but you had another daughter. Yeah, I’ve got two other daughters besides… Two more. We have three daughters all together? Yeah! And we’ve never said when they came along. They come along after I got back from overseas. So they were Mary’s kids, too. You had four children with Mary? Mm-hmm. And what are their names? Carolyn, Jim, Roberta and Sylvia. Then after that you got a divorce. And you married Daphne and you didn’t’ have any more children with Daphne, right? She never did have any. But she helped you raise some of the kids, is that right? Didn’t someone come back? The boy came back to live with you. Mm-hmm. Where did you and Mary live? Can you tell me where your house was? (inaudible) as here back in the war but there was several, you know, miner’s shack deals that they had the men - - I was gone quite a bit of the time we were moving around the country, working at different places and renting. (inaudible) But eventually you ended up buying this place.. Yeah, My son (inaudible) in and another friend and wait a second … we had a place rented down there, $10 a month at (inaudible) homes. Now when did you buy this place for? Do you remember what you paid for this cabin? I forget just exactly but it somewhere between $400 and $450. How much land does it sit on? It sits on a hundred by a hundred. And then when you married Daphne you lived here? Yeah. Is this where you stayed? Well, it wasn’t here all the time. It was in Utah. Utah and New Mexico. So she liked to travel. Was that right? Yeah. And so you guys traveled quite a bit? Then after that, when we were living here and the (inaudible) would get up a quite little because I had a job opening up a mine someplace; I was that well-known. (inaudible) down in New Mexico and we’d go down there and spend the winter. You have to tell me my favorite story. This is later, I’m joking in time I know. Can you tell me about the Breckenridge Clippers? I… It was about 1960 and you went over to live in Breckenridge for what, a year? That was in the … the one year of ’60 and ’61. What brought you over there? I was working at the Wellington Mine up French Gulch. And that was a time when there were a lot of hippies around. You got to tell me what the story was! You and your buddies would go out drinking… Yeah, we’d get to drinking and we didn’t like the long hair. You know that’s how many I’d cut it. (inaudible) Some of thems got pretty filthy hair you ever want to see! But them there that - - there was dirty hippies back in them days. And what bar did you go to over there? All of them. The Gold Pan was one of the main ones. And you’d wear a belt, what did you keep on your belt? Hippie hair! (Laughter) You had locks of hair! Alright, what kind of clippers were they? All of them clippers were tin-snips. So the miners would walk in with their belts on and you’d have a pair of tin-snips hanging from your belt. We’ll skip that and go to something else. Oh Shorty come on, it’s my favorite story! Let’s see. Sometime I think you getting a little pertinent. You don’t want to tell about the clipping, huh? Alright. We’ll move one. It (inaudible) ‘cause hard feelings amongst some - - I’ve got some pretty good friends, long-haired. You don’t know this one who comes up and shovels snow for me. He’s from down up there. No, you’ve told me about him And that’s a (inaudible) up there. Kurt asked me “Who was that women out there shoveling some snow?” (laughter) He didn’t have on a hat and it was… We’ll establish you have nothing against people with long hair. That was just a time in 1960s where there was kind of a rivalry between the miners and the hippies and it was a good-natured rivalry. Well, it was too good-natured to me when some of them resented me. Yes. When was the last time you saw Kurt and Jill? (Tape pause) Well, I was in - - this has been you know home for me for years. Something that I always come back to. Can you tell me what living in Alma has meant? How has it changed your life? You really have led a very different life than growing up on a farm in Missouri. Oh yeah,. . well, it’s been the challenge of making the place pay or other than failed. What would you tell kids today, would you have any advice for kids these days for what you went through? Anything that they take up they’d better like what they’re doing and enjoy it. And you can say that about mining? And it got in your blood. There ain’t much mining anymore. But as far as in your life, is that something that you just truly got to love? I never followed after my father’s footsteps and my son never followed after me. He could tell me one time he said, “Dad, (inaudible) not back in the mine (inaudible). When I’m 35 I’ll be a mayor!” (inaudible) Well, we all dream of that. But the (inaudible) the millionaires keeping it from me. But now you’ve paid a pretty heavy price for your mining, right? You did the uranium mining? Mm-hmm. I think that’s important for people to know. When you were doing the uranium mining, they knew that it was bad, right? I don’t know how to explain it. I couldn’t (inaudible) over. Deliberately. While you was catching a disease. And you’re saying the government they say knew. Well, that sentiment was representing the government. And they used to test you every week or every so often. Well, not exactly every week but every once and awhile. For your health …and what happened to you because of the uranium mining? What happened to me? My chest, my lungs. you lost a lung from it, right? Mm-hmm. (inaudible) Can’t hardly breathe. Can’t hardly breathe but you’re still pretty darned feisty. You think so? Yes … and what else? We should say Fantasimo, your buddy, is still sitting between us panting this into the tape recorder. End of tape. |
